Nothing much has been heard of the legal challenge filed against the policy of Oregon state colleges to ban the possession of weapons on campus. But that's all right. The Oregon Court of Appeals, where this appeal was filed in August by a private foundation, is not exactly known for blinding speed, and we should give it time.
There's a report, however, that the Oregon University System is asking the legislature to ratify its weapons bans when it meets in January. If the legislature does this, it likely will be wasting its time, for the issue is mainly a constitutional one which the courts should get a chance to affirm.
The words of the Oregon constitution are as clear as can be. In its bill of rights, our founding document says: "The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defense of themselves, and the state, but the military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power."
The section - No. 27 in Article I - guarantees the right to bear arms for two purposes. The first is self-defense. The second is defense of the state. But it doesn't condition either upon the other. So even if we are no longer called upon as a militia to repel an attack, the right of self-defense remains.
The right does not disappear the minute somebody sets foot on a state university campus. Instead, it might be even more important there than in other public places. Students or professors walking by themselves to their cars on a far-off parking lot after a night class may consider it especially useful to equip themselves for any threat.
As the law now reads, universities seem to have overstepped their authority by punishing people for being found with weapons. But even if the legislature changes the law, the constitutional right "to bear arms for the defense of themselves" remains one of the many civil rights that college students and the rest of us enjoy. (hh)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Good for J Lee for saying what he says. I wouldn't want guns in my classroom, they are antithetical to a safe environment that is conducive to learning. You might need a piece going to and from classes? This is a mindset that comes from the television, it has nothing to do with the real world.
ReplyDeleteIf you need a gun wherever you go, then maybe college is not for you.
ReplyDelete"If you need a gun wherever you go, then maybe college is not for you."
ReplyDeleteI agree, because "maybe" gun owners are too stupid and short sighted to attend college anyway. Lets face it the 2nd amendment just sucks!
^^^^^
ReplyDeleteSarcasm above...
----> Serious: With a concealed weapon permit the weapon should be that, CONCEALED.
If I carry a concealed weapon no one should know, and therefore would not be antithetical and not a threat to a safe environment that is conducive to learning.<--- End Serious.
Sarcasm---->But what do I know, I am a gun owner and College really isn't for me!<--- Sarcasm
I did not say anything about gun owners.
ReplyDeleteLearning requires a degree of structure and respect that carrying a weapon negates.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure, but am thinking that the policy of guns on campus for enrolled students in the state of Oregon is an attempt to comply with federal policy and the risk of loss of funding if those policies are not in place.
ReplyDeleteFact is that there is probably a rule found in every State and Federal Building in Oregon that can go against a constitutional right of someone.
No one is saying you "can't" carry a gun on campus. Policy (the rule)says you cannot be an enrolled student and have a gun on campus.
Even this is on a case by case basis where circumstances, and fairly conservative "sentencing" by tribunals are extended to students.
Clear rules (and if not, questions can be asked prior to enrolling) that are not so hard to follow.
That being said, it would seem that the Alpha Gamma Rho Fraternity members would be the most *norm* amongst those enrolled with concealed weapons permits, and invoking their right to do so.
You cannot trust this fraternity with BB guns, let alone more lethal weapons.
If we are weighing concealed weapons by the actions of Maxwell (WOU), he had an unconcealed knife. A knife that could have easily been put in his pocket, yet he displayed on his belt.
This lead to other weapons found on his person, and in his vehicle on WOU.
The tribunal suggested certain requirements, two of those being a psychological exam to ensure that he was not a threat to others, and a "10 page paper".
Being a psychology major, one has to wonder what he had trouble with.
This is going to be the guy who's case decides the fate of our policies of guns on college campuses?
"If you need a gun wherever you go, then maybe college is not for you."
ReplyDeleteI agree, because "maybe" people with guns are too stupid and short sighted to attend college anyway. Lets face it the 2nd amendment just sucks!
COE, so you believe that those that carry guns should not respect rules?
ReplyDeleteThe second amendment does not suck.
When you cannot respect the rules - that sucks.
Possibly you should state how you feel concerning weapons on campus (where there are rules) instead of dwelling on sarcasm?
Would your department higher someone who carries a gun because he can, but fails to respect the clearly written rules because he doesn't want to?
higher - hirer .....sorry.
ReplyDeleteMO3:
ReplyDeleteOf course rules/laws should be respected. There are laws written which make exception(s) to the individuals right to carry a concealed weapon(s) such as a Court house(s) ect. My point is; if you carry a concealed weapon and do it correctly and with responsibility no one should be the wiser.
Side note; while doing a transport out of State I have flown commercial air armed. I have to admit it was a weird feeling. All your (my) life your (I) were/was taught to never take let alone mention a weapon in an airport or on an airplane. Suffice to say I believe the plane was a safer place by having me armed. Did anyone know I was armed? No, they didn't have a clue. Maybe the haircut screamed cop, but who knows...
Back to my point:
To say that simply carrying a weapon with you everywhere you go is somehow stupid, paranoid, or add your own mental illness now is simply not the case!
Yes, I use sarcasm to illistrate this point because I myself carry a concealed weapon from time to time. Call me paranoid or anticdotal or whatever you wish. I see the dark side of our society everyday and yes I may be a bit jaded. However; stupid, or un-worthy of college? I would submit NO!
Just like the plane if I was sitting in a classroom carrying a concealed weapon I believe the room to be a safer place.
I have to wonder what/who these "Gun Free Zones" protect! Do they protect the innocent law abiding citizen or to they allow the criminal element to run wild?
Take the Virgina Tech situation for example. Had there been a person with a concealed weapon maybe there could have been a better outcome. No one will ever know I suppose.
I understand and see the issues that are raised on the other side of this. I guess I come down on simple freedom, and our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.
If you wish to broaden and add requirements to the concealed weapon permit process and they make logical sense then I am all ears.
You want a course on safe weapon handling, okay. You want to add a qualification course with your weapon and holster, sure...
Whew, I think I got it all... I am sure Ajai will let me know if I missed something! :)
Are you armed when practicing Jiu Jitsu?
ReplyDelete'The right does not disappear the minute somebody sets foot on a state university campus.'
ReplyDeleteThe same argument could be made for a courthouse.
COE -
ReplyDeleteI agree with your first paragraph, which is
I do not see a need for a change in policy, nor do I see it as a 2nd amendment right issue.
Expanding on this you state in the next few paragraphs if you are in law enforcement, have gone through rigorous training and scenarios you feel that a jet or classroom setting would be safer. Obviously makes sense.
You are trained in response. A layperson is not.
You are trained extensively in scenarios. A layperson is not.
In the case of AGR - you are sober, not stupid, and do not hunt for humans. AGR - well, you get my drift...
Do you really want to go there with Virginia Tech? Come on COE, really?
Let me state, simply, that if your first paragraph applies to CCWP's, then you do not really know how many people had weapons that day in West Ambler Johnston Hall, nor at Norris - or for that matter those seeing Cho in the 2 hours between the two incidents, right?
Now, your side comment - uh, you didn't have to pass through security that would have made your glock set something off? Nobody in airport security knew you had a gun?? Nobody??
I feel discriminated against. My Kubotan I had my keys on made it to Nevada, but not home with me because it was a weapon.
I need a new haircut...
The second amendment does not cover each and every incident and scenario that has occurred since it's ratification. Nukes are an obvious example. Those who dismiss laws against nukes often say something like, 'Well, there weren't nukes then so the founders couldn't address laws making them illegal.' We can make the same arguments for guns in federal buildings and on public school grounds/campuses. There was no Columbine when the founders made the rules. The rules need to change to fit the present society it governs.
ReplyDeleteYou dropped your post on the Fort Hood Shooting.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that the shooter was a Virginia Tech graduate...
The reason I dropped it is because I did not know if my assumption is accurate. From what I've read, there are generally no guns allowed on the base.
ReplyDeleteYum, yum, yum...this crow doesn't taste too bad with a nice Zinfandel.
You are right. I guess I share your crow on the issue. I was thinking deployment center = lots of guns.
ReplyDelete"uh, you didn't have to pass through security that would have made your glock set something off? Nobody in airport security knew you had a gun?? Nobody??"
ReplyDeleteYes, of course there was a process involved with the airline(s) and airport security. We did however get to bypass security once there, (with proper identification and documentation) as there was really no point.
We were first on the plane and met with the pilot. We were also told that if there was a Air Marshall on board that they would be notified of us and that we were armed.
I guess I was more talking about my personal feelings towards being on a plane with the other passengers unaware of us and our weapons.
"Do you really want to go there with Virginia Tech? Come on COE, really?"
Why not? I understand that I have more specialized training, but I would be willing to bet that most CCW permit holders have at least basic weapons handling training. Some have prior military training, as well as some prior/retired police/fire training. I would think that those more likely to go through the process of getting a permit would be at the very least more interested in learning some of these tactics...
I could be way off here, but I tend to think not.
"Are you armed when practicing Jiu Jitsu?"
ReplyDeleteHA! I would be unbeatable then now wouldn't I?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572850,00.html
ReplyDeleteDON'T WORRY... This is an AP story picked up by Fox.
What a sad event. And there was true bravery on the parts of those who responded, stopped the killer, and helped the victims.
ReplyDelete"How a president responds to a crisis defines him. President Obama has shown how upset he was after the murder of abortion Dr. George Tiller and after the attack on the Holocaust Museum. But when it came to the Ft. Hood shootings, the president twice gave the incident a limited response ...devoting little more than 4 minutes over two separate appearances to the 13 dead and 30 wounded.
ReplyDeleteIn the Tiller case, the president was "shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services this morning." In the case of the museum attack, Obama was "shocked and saddened by today's shooting at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum."
But when it came to the horrendous Ft. Hood shootings, the term "shocked" was nowhere to be found. Instead, the initial response was shoehorned into comments he made opening the White House Tribal Nations Conference. First there were a couple applause lines to Native Americans and Obama's "shout out to that Congressional Medal of Honor winner," who appears not to have won the medal. (Joe Medicine Crow won the Medal of Freedom -- the nation's highest civilian honor.)
Then the president addressed the shooting. While he called the incident "horrible" and a "tragedy" and urged "prayers," the response seemed understated compared to the other incidents. Then, in true Obama fashion, he did manage to make the shootings at least in part about him. "I want all of you to know that as commander in chief, that there's no greater honor but also no greater responsibility for me than to make sure that the extraordinary men and women in uniform are properly cared for and that their safety and security when they are at home is provided for us."
Two minutes and 39 seconds later he was done and without even taking a breath back to talking about the Native American event. Nowhere in his speech or his remarks the next day did he even acknowledge that the attacker was a Muslim. In his statement after the museum attack, he correctly criticized "anti-Semitism and prejudice" but made no mention of religion in the latest incident.
The Nov. 6 appearance took up just 1 minute 30 seconds and this time it was paired with his remarks on the bad unemployment numbers. In all, he spent 4 minutes 9 seconds to address the attack on 43 Americans ...less than 6 seconds per person."
Dan Gainor is The Boone Pickens Fellow and the Media Research Center's Vice President for Business and Culture.
Give it a rest, Obama has ordered flags to be flown at half-mast until Veteran's Day. This is just another right-wing spin tactic.
ReplyDeleteThere is no gain politicizing a national tragedy.
ReplyDeleteRest? That sounds nice. I could use some!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApJnyk1PV8
ReplyDeleteWhile resting I thought I'd give you a little "Right Wing" Redneck Golf for laughs... I find the reactions rather strange. Not one person runs like hell!
COE, I should have been clearer in my post. I was telling the person you were quoting to give it a rest.
ReplyDeleteThe President and First Lady took time to meet with each and every family of those who were killed, with the walking wounded, and went to the hospital to visit with those still there, and gave a moving speech at the memorial service.
ReplyDeleteI wonder, will his critics still say he didn't respond enough?
That video was great! I'm a golfer, and a crappy one at that...there's been many times I would have loved to have someone shoot the damn balls I was hitting...since they weren't going where I wanted them to go.
ReplyDeleteHey, COE, maybe we should get together sometime! I'll bring the clubs and balls, you bring the gun! Just be careful where you point the damn thing!
Oh, and that post about Obama responded to the Ft. Hood shootings was just silly!
ReplyDelete"Hey, COE, maybe we should get together sometime! I'll bring the clubs and balls, you bring the gun! Just be careful where you point the damn thing!"
ReplyDeleteNice... Sounds like a plan.
You're right Vicky. Obama has redeemed himself with his handling of the Ft. Hood situation.
ReplyDeleteThe speach at the Native American conference was however not his finest hour. I watched the speach and was not impressed at all! Not even close to being Presidential IMHO anyway. He gave a "shout out" and then mispoke about a medal of honor winner in the audiance before even metioning the Ft. Hood tragedy.
I am glad he did visit with the families, and the folks still in the hospital...